[L16-usa] Request for info on 1937 Planked L16
Emmanuel Jung
emmanuel at silver-wings.fr
Fri Apr 12 00:50:10 EDT 2013
Thanks Tom for your message.
I'm looking forward to hearing from David and Poncho too !
You have noted the longer cabin top on 1987 photo. I was surprised too,
since the cabin of silver wings is shorter and, same as recent L-16, starts
behind the mast, with two windows.
Have a nice day !
Best
Emmanuel
2013/4/12 Thomas Rolfes <trrolfes at att.net>
> Emmanuel:
>
> An interesting challenge!!
>
> By copying David Folger and Poncho Cole, I think you have probably reached
> people who have the best chance of helping you. There are people in the
> area on Mount Desert Island who have done considerable restorations, and
> there is at least one that is getting that kind of work done now, although
> I do not know if it falls in the realm of "planked" L-16s.
>
> I do note that the cabin top is a bit larger on your vessel than I have
> seen among the L-16's in our area. In our boats, the cabin top does not
> begin until behind the mast step.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Tom Rolfes
> Fleet Captain
> MDI Luders Association
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Emmanuel Jung <emmanuel at silver-wings.fr>
> *To:* TRRolfes at att.net; L16-usa at l16.org; Lawrence DeMilner <
> demilner at downeast.net>; Pancho Cole <panchocole at gmail.com>; David Folger <
> willowindfarm at gmail.com>; Janet Callow <Jcallow77 at aol.com>; Patti Rague <
> patti at raguestudio.com>
> *Cc:* simpson at fieldmuseum.org
> *Sent:* Thu, April 11, 2013 2:20:12 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Request for info on 1937 Planked L16
>
> Hello all,
>
> I have sent a week ago an email on your "l-16 fleet list" but apparently
> it did not reach you. Bill Simpson, from Chicago, suggested that I contact
> you directly.
>
> I am the new owner of a 1937 planked L-16, imported in France in 1938
> "Siver Wings". According to Bob Wallstrom, she is likely to be Hull 421 -
> #13, and according to records most probably (one of) the last (possibly 4)
> planked L-16 still sailing... Have a look at her dedicated website :
> www.silver-wings.fr
>
> I would highly appreciate if you share this information around you, and
> possibly share with me any information related with this pre-WW2 beautiful
> lady: plans (because I would like to restore her according the original
> design), pictures, testimonies, ...
>
> Many thanks for your interest and contribution.
> Best regards,
>
> Emmanuel
> +33 6 71 22 49 51
> www.silver-wings.fr
>
>
>
>
>
> 2013/4/11 William F. Simpson <wsimpson at fieldmuseum.org>
>
>> **
>> Hi Emmanuel,
>>
>> Hmm, well it sounds like WE need to credit Bob! I'll copy Larry Weeks on
>> this, and see what should be done. Thanks!
>>
>> Good luck with your research into planked L16s, we'd love to be included
>> on what you find out!
>>
>> Best,
>> Bill
>>
>> On 4/11/13 12:08 PM, Emmanuel Jung wrote:
>>
>> Hi Bill,
>> Thanks a lot for your prompt answer.
>>
>> OK, I'll write to Bob directly, you will get copy.
>> Actually, I do not believe I am the plagiarist, since I only report an on-line
>> article <http://www.classicboat.co.uk/class-notes/lunders-16/> from
>> "Classic boats", mentioned on www.l16.org, which indeed copies Bob's
>> article. In the meantime, I have modified my own description of the L-16,
>> with reference to Bob's original article (I bought the Wooden Boats
>> Magazine on-line PDF issue).
>>
>> Re. listserve, I guess it's OK now, since I've got an email form Nancy
>> Broeckl, in response to a previous email. "I'm glad to hear that you're
>> still working on the book. Hope it comes out soon".
>>
>> I have sent a general email to the supposed "5 active fleets" mentionedon
>> l16.org. Thanks fort the contact with the 2 really active ones. I email
>> them immediately.
>>
>> I try to register Silver-Wings on Wooden Boats Mag, I keep you updates,
>> Very best,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2013/4/11 William F. Simpson <wsimpson at fieldmuseum.org>
>>
>>> Hi Emmanuel,
>>>
>>> No, I guess you need to write Bob Wallstrom directly. Maybe a reminder
>>> email now and then if you don't hear from him. I think he's pretty busy,
>>> but he's a wonderful resource for L16s!
>>>
>>> Concerning the plagiarism, why don't you just credit Bob on the
>>> website? I think that's all he's looking for.
>>>
>>> I've sent Larry Weeks (L16 #204, Wild Irish), who maintains our website,
>>> an email asking him to make sure you are added to our listserve. Are you
>>> getting messages from that listserve now?
>>>
>>> There are two other active L16 Fleets in the US, a small one (about 4 or
>>> 5 boats) in San Diego, and a giant array of ~40 L16s in and around Mt.
>>> Desert Island in Maine.
>>>
>>> Here are folks to contact in Maine:
>>>
>>> Tom Rolfes:
>>> <TRRolfes at att.net> <TRRolfes at att.net>
>>> <L16-usa at l16.org> <L16-usa at l16.org>
>>> Lawrence DeMilner <demilner at downeast.net> <demilner at downeast.net>
>>> Pancho Cole <panchocole at gmail.com> <panchocole at gmail.com>
>>> David Folger <willowindfarm at gmail.com> <willowindfarm at gmail.com>
>>>
>>> Here are folks to contact in San Diego:
>>>
>>> Janet Callow <Jcallow77 at aol.com> <Jcallow77 at aol.com>
>>> Patti Rague <patti at raguestudio.com> <patti at raguestudio.com>
>>>
>>> I don't think any of these fleets has planked L16s, but they may have
>>> some knowledge to share.
>>>
>>> I wonder if contacting WoodenBoat Magazine would help as well? They
>>> have a Register of Wooden Boats, though I've never tried looking for
>>> planked L16s there. You might want to add your boat to the Register! You
>>> can do it online, and it doesn't cost anything:
>>>
>>> http://rwb.woodenboat.com/rwb/index.php
>>>
>>> You might also try emailing one of their researchers. I've corresponded
>>> with Pat Lown:
>>>
>>> "I am Pat Lown, research assistant, pat.lown at woodenboat.com or
>>> 207-359-4651. I work part-time, generally M-T-W. "
>>>
>>> Let me know how you do!
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Bill
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4/11/13 7:58 AM, Emmanuel Jung wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello Bill,
>>> I wonder whether you got an answer from Bob ?
>>> I'm also afraid that I might be the "plagiarist", what I did not
>>> intend to.
>>> Also, I did not get any answer to my mails to other L-16 fleets, can
>>> you help ?
>>> Thanks for your return,
>>> Best.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/4/5 William F. Simpson <wsimpson at fieldmuseum.org>
>>>
>>>> Welcome back, Bob!
>>>>
>>>> I'm not clear on all your responses - look for my comments in red.
>>>>
>>>> On 4/4/13 4:46 PM, Bob Wallstrrom wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Greetings Bill Simpson and others.
>>>> **
>>>> *Hull 437 - L-16 #15* was delivered I n 1939 for a TW Russell and *Hull
>>>> 424 - L-16 #14* of 1937 for JW Weber Jr. and was the Luders Showboat
>>>> at the 1937 NY Boatshow. It may not have been delivered until 1938 as the
>>>> Hull Register seems to suggest.* Hull 421 - * *#13 *was for George
>>>> Gould. *Hull 403 #12* was for Elihu Root of of unk. yr. *Hull 402 –
>>>> L-16 #11* was for PS duPont of unk. yr.. That makes 15 total of that
>>>> particular issue although I seem to recall that there was one other that
>>>> could not be attributed to Luders or any other yard for that matter. So it
>>>> seems to me that #15 of 1937. Looks pretty good that Hull 424 is the
>>>> right choice but I hope that there might have been some documentation that
>>>> would support the solid appearing choice.
>>>>
>>>> Hey, Bob, when was the first planked L16 delivered?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am glad that someone finally contacted me for the information shown
>>>> above so I could get the buyer’s name in the record.
>>>>
>>>> You mean Emmanuel Jung's name?
>>>>
>>>> Bill, I am very glad that you remembered my name. I could see from
>>>> the material that accompanied the material that came with it that it’s too
>>>> bad that my name was not with the camera that took the Luders image – I was
>>>> standing along side of Bill at that moment.
>>>>
>>>> Which image are you talking about, Bob?
>>>>
>>>> Also some one has plagiarized the copy from my article and should
>>>> have given me credit for the words. O’well if they buy the book when it’s
>>>> done I will be rewarded.
>>>>
>>>> Which text is that, Bob? Hey, we're all friends here. List the text
>>>> that you wrote, and I'm sure who ever used it on a website will cite you,
>>>> or take it down!
>>>>
>>>> By the way, that was the second time today that image appeared here
>>>> in my e-mail.
>>>>
>>>> Again, which image? Sorry to be so lost, but I want to understand what
>>>> you're referring to!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As to the L-16 list, I never made it there at all.and was too numb to
>>>> not that I was not getting any L-16 news. I merely attributed it to the
>>>> famed hurricane that did so much damage down south. can you put me back on?
>>>> I’ll try to call you to tell the long story why.
>>>>
>>>> LARRY WEEKS, can you make sure Bob Wallstrom gets added to our
>>>> listserve?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> With thanks and great to be again seeing those names from the past.
>>>>
>>>> We're glad to have you back, Bob. To be honest, you never really left,
>>>> we've always considered you the "last word" on Luders Marine.
>>>>
>>>> Hey, here's a trivia question: On the 1945 era bronze builder's
>>>> plaques for L16s, "Lüders Marine Construction Company" is spelled with an
>>>> umlaut: "Lüders". What's up with that? It's the only place I've seen
>>>> Luders use an umlaut, but that's a pretty important place. One of the most
>>>> permanent!
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Bill
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Bob Wallstrom
>>>> New POB is now 213
>>>> Brownfield, ME 04010
>>>> 207.935.4655
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* William F. Simpson <wsimpson at fieldmuseum.org>
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 04, 2013 4:18 PM
>>>> *To:* Emmanuel Jung <emmanuel at silver-wings.fr>
>>>> *Cc:* Larry Weeks <lweeks at anabasis.net> ; The Chicago L-16 Fleet List<l16-chicago at l16.org>; Bob
>>>> Wallstrom <deltasurvey at fairpoint.net> ; John Lee<johnrlee at icanlearn.com>; AVAL
>>>> Atelier des Voiles d'Antan du Léman <voilesdantan at hotmail.fr>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: Request for info on 1931 Planked L16
>>>>
>>>> Hi Emmanuel!
>>>>
>>>> On 4/4/13 2:51 PM, Emmanuel Jung wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Bill for your quick and useful answer,
>>>>
>>>> For pics of the 1937 planked L16 "Silver Wings", vous can visit :
>>>> - www.silver-wings.fr, the site I have just started to build,
>>>> - and also the Picasa album of all pics we've made :
>>>> https://picasaweb.google.com/101668719610208364873/Luders163Mars2013?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCKvg5uOMv-jC6gE&feat=directlink
>>>>
>>>> I am very excited to hear that a sister ship might be still sailing.
>>>>
>>>> Well, that photo is from 1987! I don't know if the boat still exists,
>>>> and if it does, which one it is. The owner's name was John Packard. I
>>>> think I might be able to get you his 1987 address from the envelope he sent
>>>> me the photo in...
>>>>
>>>> Thanks a lot for the photo ! It will be very useful for the coming
>>>> restoration work ! (of course if you have other pics ...)
>>>>
>>>> No, he only mailed me that one photo. But I think I found out about
>>>> him from his ad in WoodenBoat. It might be worth checking out the 1986 and
>>>> 1987 issues of WoodenBoat for an ad on this boat. John Packard lived in
>>>> New York (but not NY city I think) at the time.
>>>>
>>>> Would you please possibly inform the owner I am interested in having
>>>> a direct contact ?
>>>> From the documentation collected from www.l16.org and Wooden Boats
>>>> Magazine, 3 out of the 14 planked hulls have not been destroyed by the
>>>> september 1938 hurricane. So we already know about 2 of them. With the 15th
>>>> hull built in 1939, there are still 4 possible candidates...
>>>>
>>>> Sounds like a fun mystery!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also, can you please arrange that I can post on the L16 listserve,
>>>> I've just received today a message, telling that my subscription has been
>>>> rejected ... Too bad.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, I rejected your post. All it consisted of was your email
>>>> address, no text, so I saw no reason to distribute it. Try again?
>>>> Actually, Larry Weeks (Wild Irish, L16 #204) built this listserve. Larry,
>>>> can you make sure Emmanuel gets successfully subscribed? I just help Larry
>>>> filter out all the spam which gets posted to the list.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again, and best regards.
>>>>
>>>> Emmanuel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I look forward to hearing more from you!
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Bill
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2013/4/4 William F. Simpson <wsimpson at fieldmuseum.org>
>>>>
>>>>> Dear All,
>>>>>
>>>>> See the email below (in blue) from Emmanuel Jung who has an original
>>>>> 1931 planked L16! I saw yesterday that he tried to post to our listserve,
>>>>> but it didn't go through. Then I got his email from John Lee. I'm also
>>>>> copying Bob Wallstrom on this, maybe he can help as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Emmanuel, we have plans for the hot-molded L16s on the L16 website,
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.l16.org/Library/
>>>>>
>>>>> but not the planked version. Luders Marine had a fire at some point,
>>>>> and many (all?) documents on site were lost. I'm hoping Bob Wallstrom
>>>>> knows of a source for you. If you're willing, please copy the L16
>>>>> listserve on this topic, we'd all love to hear what you find out!
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Bill
>>>>>
>>>>> p.s. When in 1987 I was looking to join the Chicago L16 Fleet, I
>>>>> corresponded with an owner from NY who had a planked L16 for sail. Here'a
>>>>> a pic! Emmanuel, send us all pics of your boat, will you?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Original 1931 Planked
>>>>> Luders 16*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Emmanuel Jung <emmanuel at silver-wings.fr>
>>>>> Date: Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 9:45 AM
>>>>> Subject: Planked Luders 16 b.1939
>>>>> To: webmaster at l16.org, captain at l16.org, info at chicagoyachtclub.org,
>>>>> membership at fbyc.ca, info at mdisailing.org, info at southernyachtclub.org,
>>>>> Commodore at whyc.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Sir, Madam,
>>>>> I have just discovered a planked Luders 16, built before 1939 by the
>>>>> Luders Marine Construction Cie, and imported in France by Fank "Jay" Gould
>>>>> to compete on the Lake Leman. She is very likely the last planked L-16
>>>>> still sailing.
>>>>> I would highly appreciate to learn more about the ship construction
>>>>> and have access to the original plans, in order to make the necessary
>>>>> restoration work according to the original design.
>>>>> I have sought information, including on the great Mystic Seaport
>>>>> website, but I was not able, unfortunately, to find relevant information.
>>>>> Would you be aware of of any useful link or people to contact, please be so
>>>>> kind and let me know.
>>>>> Thanks in advance for your answer,
>>>>> With my best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Emmanuel Jung
>>>>> L-16 Silver Wings
>>>>> www.silver-wings.fr
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> *William F. Simpson
>>>>> *
>>>>> Clipper, Lüders 16, #22
>>>>> Chicago L16 Fleet Treasurer & Archivist
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (312) 665-7628 simpson at fieldmuseum.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> *William F. Simpson*
>>>>
>>>> McCarter Collections Manager
>>>>
>>>> Fossil Vertebrates
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Field Museum of Natural History*
>>>>
>>>> 1400 South Lake Shore Drive
>>>>
>>>> Chicago, Illinois 60605
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> (312) 665-7628 simpson at fieldmuseum.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> *William F. Simpson*
>>>>
>>>> McCarter Collections Manager
>>>>
>>>> Fossil Vertebrates
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Field Museum of Natural History*
>>>>
>>>> 1400 South Lake Shore Drive
>>>>
>>>> Chicago, Illinois 60605
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> (312) 665-7628 simpson at fieldmuseum.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *William F. Simpson*
>>>
>>> McCarter Collections Manager
>>>
>>> Fossil Vertebrates
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Field Museum of Natural History*
>>>
>>> 1400 South Lake Shore Drive
>>>
>>> Chicago, Illinois 60605
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (312) 665-7628 simpson at fieldmuseum.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *William F. Simpson*****
>>
>> McCarter Collections Manager****
>>
>> Fossil Vertebrates****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> *Field Museum of Natural History*****
>>
>> 1400 South Lake Shore Drive****
>>
>> Chicago, Illinois 60605****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> (312) 665-7628 simpson at fieldmuseum.org****
>>
>
>
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